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Author
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Topic: Nick's Experiences
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Nick
unregistered
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posted 25 January 2001 08:26 AM
 
I am 38 years of age and have suffered with back pains for the last fifteen years. I had always put this down to the fact that I have often worked very hard in very physical activities - building, mechanics etc.
Ten years ago things got much worse - I found myself blocked in a doubled over position, a french ‘guerriseur’, healer, who usually deals with cows clicked me back into position by applying a brusque pressure to my buttock..
This immediately enabled me to stand straight, but I suffered pain for months after, and particularly of a sciatic nature. I was eventually able to return to my building work.. The pain came and went, but over an eight year period I did very heavy work with bouts of pain which gradually took the form of a lower back ache, rather than the previous sciatic symptoms.
A couple of years ago I knew that I had to stop physical work, but it wasn’t possible to end this completely, and at the beginning of last year my back declared that it was no longer going to play.
At last I went to have an x-ray which revealed that I had the disc at L5 S1 flattened, and that this was due to a hardening (excuse terminology, but my results are in french) of the two surrounding vertebra, caused by an accident during my adolescence. I had experienced a very high and damaging fall at 14, and my back was never diagnosed.
I’ve spent the last year in agony, though I’m sure that many of you have far more pain and problems than me , and stupidly attempted suicide because of this and my incapacity to earn money. I live in france but am not entitled to benefits or medical cover (another story).
My doctor of 12 years, who is a general practitioner specialising in homeopathy and accupuncture (this helps me for temporary - v. welcome - pain relief) has proposed over the last year:
Putting clay (moisten and warm) on my back a couple of hours a day - no obvious signs of aid over a few months and very mucky bed sheets.
Numerous homeopathic remedies - nothing doing.
Arthrochondrine capsules - nothing doing.
Drops of Horses Tail plant - nothing doing.
Drops of various Weleda products inc. for example laboratory manufactured vertebral disc fluid, arnica and other homeopathic remedies. This is the anthroposophical approach, and is intended to help pump the disc back up. I also passed many months having these products injected each side of the disc daily. This has not worked for me after a year (my doc told me to be patient), it may work for you. One thing is definite, you have to think positively, and tell yourself you are going to get better. In order to do this you need to be alleviated from the pain, at least periodically. The only effective method I have found is marijuana, but I do not recommend this as a permanent remedy, as one soon gets inured to it, and wacky baccy can make you paranoid.
I have visited two osteopaths, whom I was assured would not employ brash manipulations, both did so with agonising, long lasting results.
A physiotherapist (kinetherapist in france) was very gentle and soothing, and gave temporary (few hours) alleviation of pain, as does a massage from my beloved. Shiatsu can help, but beware not to get carried away with the exercises, and warn the masseur of your problem.
I have now lost patience with the ‘alternative’ approach, although a kinesologist has greatly aided me with sleeping. I have been to see a back specialist/neurologist who tells me that I need to have the flattened disc removed, and the two vertebra welded together. Acquaintances who have suffered this operation tell me they feel worse off now than before, can anybody relate their experiences of this good or bad please?
A friend had an operation to nibble off the part of the disc that was touching the nerve, with success, but scans show that this is apparently not going to help me. I’ve heard of titanium being used to replace the disc, any info appreciated.
The neurologist suggested having my nerves cauterized for relief of a couple of months, but a friend says this is very painful and didn’t work for her.
Good luck to all fellow sufferers and please help this site to help us by giving readers any advice and information that may be relavant.
I would be very pleased to hear from/reply to you, and can be contacted at: stallwood@theoffice.net
all the best,
Nick
xxxXxxx.
IP: Logged |
Gaz
Administrator
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posted 26 January 2001 04:55 AM
 
Hi Nick, thanks for that.
I see some similarities here, especially the building / mechanics jobs and then the 'cow healer'. My 'cow healer' was a friend who had the great idea to walk up and down my spine. It seems like madness now but back then I was trying anything to sort it out.
You don't by any chance have a long/tall spine? I'm 6ft 2 and a bit and it is this that predisposes me to back problems, supposedly.I think it's the feeling of helplessness that causes me the most problems. I have spent my life being an independent soul, but when my back is 'out' even the most basic tasks like lifting the kettle are triggers for more of the same. So I become more reliant on other people while at the same time not wanting to be fussed over. It's a very hard for my carer's to find the right balance. When people say to me 'I've got a bad back but it's not as bad as yours', I always reply that you can't put back pain on a scale of 1 to 10. If you've got a bad back worth mentioning I feel for you. It's an awful position to be in but with 4 out of every 5 people in the world suffering from bad backs at some point in their lives, we're all in this together. We've just had more experience and so are better at it. It sounds as though you've been out there and tried every remedy you can get your hands on and power to you for that. One you didn't mention was Reflexology which is one of my favorites. It's managed to pull me back from the brink on more than one occasion. I was in India last year and my back collapsed from getting up from a squat toilet, it felt like a big one and I diagnosed it as going to last two weeks. An Indian 'spiritual man' staying in the same hostel went to work on it and I was up and about the next day! When I can afford an osteopath or chiropractor they don't do any crunching, only massage. Whether it works or not, it still feels great. The general consensus now is don't crunch backs and only operate as a last resort. Physio's have always been a great help and I've written about my 'Muscle Strengthening' exercises in the 'Treatment & Self Help' section of the Forum. As for the Marijuana, I have carried out extensive testing on this medicinal herb and what I can conclude is, only ever smoke it whilst laying flat as when the muscles relax you leave yourself open to more damage. Pay extra special attention (ie.crawl on all fours) when going to the toilet.
Fortunately you can overcome this by ingesting it in cakes or cookies.
With the long term treatment of operations I think you have to weigh up the quality of life you are experiencing now to the possible quality of life you could be experiencing. In many ways not having the choice was a lot easier for me, it wasn't a question of 'if' but 'when' I was to be operated on. L5/S1 was a bugger to get over with but I do feel the benefits now. The 'welding' of the vertebra was a more natural process than it sounds as when the 'nucleus' of the disc is removed the disc dies and becomes hard causing a 'welding' of the disc to the vertebra above and below it. I don't know whether it would be the same for you but it made me feel better knowing that it was a natural process rather than the thought of an arc welder rummaging around in my lower spine! As for the future, whatever you feel about human cloning it is now a reality as the House of Lords gave the go ahead on the 23rd January. The word is to expect spine replacement by 2017. If you're there then come up and say hello, I'll be the guy with the bandana on his head at the front of the queue! To close Nick, it sounds as though you have the strength of a thousand men and I'm sure that the people around you see that everyday and take courage from it.
It's not what you haven't got it's what you have. I really appreciate you writing in, thank you.
Gaz
IP: Logged |
Nick
unregistered
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posted 14 April 2001 12:57 AM
Dear Gaz,
thank you for your very rapid and really appreciated replies, and please excuse my tardiness, I had a few probs, and have gone nomadic again, which has meant losing the access to the computer I was on.We seem to have quite a lot in common including a passion for India, a
long spine, and our independent streaks. Having said that I have recently developed a great need/desire for security, comfort, compassion/company, and I've completely blown that with my beloved masseuse by my depressed and suicidal states. I am really not coping well with not being able to work, earn money, make love, garden, play with kids. I'm a classic Leo, our weak spots are the spine and heart, and I am really not good at being restricted or feeling enclosed, I've gone stir crazy. I'd love some advice on anti depressants and
pain killers. My doctor is too homeopathic to reccomend anything strong, and here in the sticks of France I can't afford to see and experiment with numerous docs and medication. I don't think my pain touches upon what a lot of brave people out there are going through, but I am really not enjoying life anymore and I have therefore plunged into researching the operation options. I have scoured the French sites if anyone wants info. The Americans have dozens of
them - spinefocus.com, spinegalaxy.com, spinehub.com etc. all seem associated and pushing certain types of endoscopic discectomy. Useful sites are Orthopedics Weekly at www.slackinc.com www.healthboards.com www.spine-health.com www.spineuniverse.com www.bonati.com
and the Lancet www.lancetneuronet.com An article in the archives of the British Medical Journal - www.bmj.com - has put me on the trail of a disc replacement technique that expands with moisture, a PDN - prosthetic intervertebral disc nucleus device by Raymedica in US, and used in the Horst/Schmidt (HSK) clinic in Wiesbaden,
Germany. The BMJ document dates from 1997 and I can't find anything more recent, any ideas ? I have just managed to get a French phone no. for one of their representatives, I'll phone tomorrow and keep you posted. I find this PDN idea more logical than a fusion, which I am concerned wouldn't work well for me because my two L5 S1 vertabrae have hardened due to my long fall at 14. I am also worried that a fusion might result in me experiencing more pain than at present. Could I just carry on being a pain battling hermit, or am I damaging my nerve/s more? My doctor told me my pain was due to straining actions which caused everything to go into spasm. The neurosurgeon said the pain was
caused by the nerves in my vertabrae because my flat disc wasn't protecting them. IDET - www.idet.com - suggest that they desensitize the disc. What actually generates the pain that my quite specific condition has provoked ? If my disc is flat, but not herniated, where has the gooh that makes up my nucleus propulsus gone? can't I just inject some more gooh back in ? Could you give me the name of the doctor and hospital you visited in Harrow?
Is there ever any end to all these questions ? I know of someone who is chronically ill due to a ridiculagram, does anyone know of the current risks of these radioactive dyes ?
Paranoid or what ? J'espere que ca gaze ( I hope things are going well), confidence, happiness and love to you all, Nick IP: Logged |
John
unregistered
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posted 31 May 2001 04:32 PM
[Nick why don't you try low level laser therapy all the best John IP: Logged |
drzacherl@hotmail.com
unregistered
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posted 06 June 2001 08:20 AM
I treat conditions like yours every day in the US. I suggest you seek out a chiropractor who performs manual manipulation, therapies (perhaps ultrasound or electric muscle stimulation would aid a manipulation), and rehabilative exercises. Chiropractors can vary greatly with their philosophy and treatment techniques. I suggest a mainstream DC and avoid one that appears too "alternative".
Loss of disc height in the low lumbar spine tends to respond well to manipulation to increase joint mobility, which allows the disc to have a greater supply of nutrient, helping it regain height and heal. Therapies are performed to decrease spasm and soft tissue adhesions. Rehabilatitive exercise is taught to strenghthen the injured area in order to stabilize the spine. "Low-tech" exercises, I believe, work the best, including exercise ball programs, sqauts and lunges w/ weights, mackenzie exercises, and pelvic tilt exercises.
I invite you to read more about treatment and articles on my website www.drzacherl.com
If you have any questions feel free to email.
IP: Logged |
SMITTY
Member
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posted 06 March 2003 05:09 PM
NICK,
I don't know how much help I maybe, I have been dealing with a low back injury for the last 15 yrs. I have had 3 lamenectomies, 2 exploratories, 1 interbody fusion, removal of hardware x 2, plus every type of injection/ therapy availible,,,, you asked for any inof availible form slf experiance, so here it goes,,,,FIRST, suicide is NO answer,,, it only stops your pain and causes your loved ones to start with a NEW pain,, so with that said,,, let's talk treatments,,first, I only wish I had the fusion done years earlier, remeber each case is very different from the others,, where your friends maybe worse you may get great relief from this,,, in the U.S. this is a great form of treatment, I had mine done by a Dr. in Colorado, he holds the patent to 2 different artificial discs, the surgery was a success, however, from me waiting ten yrs. The Damage was already DONE,,, I waited to long,,, also the Dr.'s are right a surgery to " nibble" off the problem won't work, remember, I said each person and injury is very different from the other. If the question is should you have the fusion or not,, then I would say go for it,, look at the level of pain on your worst day,,, then ask yourself, how long do you really want to wait???? If the surgery relieves ANY pain, or it simply stablizes your back, then it is a success, After the surgery, do exactly what the Dr. Says,,, and make sure to get plenty of P.T. and exercise, mainly stretching... this helps greatly, I do range and motion every morning for 2 hrs. then get a relaxing massage from my great wife, then a hour in the shower with red hot water,,, this keeps my pain levels from increasing to much... As far as having the nerves cauterized, that is a REAL serious thing,,, think of it like this, each nerve is comprised of hundreds of fibers, (like a telephone cable) when the Dr. cauterize it, they cut the nerve then burn the ends,,,, even thought they burn the ends, the nerve eventually, regrows together,ecept now the lines are not the right ones,,,, if we use the phone cable example,,, when the cut the nerve the red wire,green,white,black,(and so on) get severed, now when they grow back, the red could connect with the green, the yellow with the blue, the balck with the orange, and so on, now the nerve gets mixed signals causing major problems with pain receptors and all the other receptors in the nerve... see the problem,,, believe me I thought of doing that myself until I was explained this,,, ask your Dr. he will explain it as well,,,The best things I have found is BIO -FEED BACK,,, which is projecting your pain and yourself somewhere else,,, like relaxation exercises,,, also a TENS machine,,, this uses electric impluses to block the pain signals from reaching the brain, also a great pain reliever is Oxycontin,, this is time released for a twelve hr. dose,,, and works great,,,, better than wacky tabbacy,,, only rpoblem is, it is real expensive,,, like $1000.00 for a 300, 20mg tablets....
Good Luck Nick, if there is anything I can do to help with information just ask,,,, E-Mail me,,, I will respond A.S.A.P
SMITTY
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Kevman
Member
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posted 15 March 2003 11:03 AM
Nick,I understand your pain. All I can tell youis that if the pain is not unbearable don't have surgery. I was under the impression that I would be better and I'm not. I'm looking at my second surgery in 10 years and I have never been pain free since the first one. Imagine straightening out you leg and trying to bend down. This is the only example of how I feel when trying to bend my back after a laminectomy. I would try everything you can before having surgery. Hot baths seem to help me short term. Norco has also helped more than Vicodin to relieve the pain. I hope this helps.
quote:
Originally posted by Nick:
I am 38 years of age and have suffered with back pains for the last fifteen years. I had always put this down to the fact that I have often worked very hard in very physical activities - building, mechanics etc.
Ten years ago things got much worse - I found myself blocked in a doubled over position, a french ‘guerriseur’, healer, who usually deals with cows clicked me back into position by applying a brusque pressure to my buttock..
This immediately enabled me to stand straight, but I suffered pain for months after, and particularly of a sciatic nature. I was eventually able to return to my building work.. The pain came and went, but over an eight year period I did very heavy work with bouts of pain which gradually took the form of a lower back ache, rather than the previous sciatic symptoms.
A couple of years ago I knew that I had to stop physical work, but it wasn’t possible to end this completely, and at the beginning of last year my back declared that it was no longer going to play.
At last I went to have an x-ray which revealed that I had the disc at L5 S1 flattened, and that this was due to a hardening (excuse terminology, but my results are in french) of the two surrounding vertebra, caused by an accident during my adolescence. I had experienced a very high and damaging fall at 14, and my back was never diagnosed.
I’ve spent the last year in agony, though I’m sure that many of you have far more pain and problems than me , and stupidly attempted suicide because of this and my incapacity to earn money. I live in france but am not entitled to benefits or medical cover (another story).
My doctor of 12 years, who is a general practitioner specialising in homeopathy and accupuncture (this helps me for temporary - v. welcome - pain relief) has proposed over the last year:
Putting clay (moisten and warm) on my back a couple of hours a day - no obvious signs of aid over a few months and very mucky bed sheets.
Numerous homeopathic remedies - nothing doing.
Arthrochondrine capsules - nothing doing.
Drops of Horses Tail plant - nothing doing.
Drops of various Weleda products inc. for example laboratory manufactured vertebral disc fluid, arnica and other homeopathic remedies. This is the anthroposophical approach, and is intended to help pump the disc back up. I also passed many months having these products injected each side of the disc daily. This has not worked for me after a year (my doc told me to be patient), it may work for you. One thing is definite, you have to think positively, and tell yourself you are going to get better. In order to do this you need to be alleviated from the pain, at least periodically. The only effective method I have found is marijuana, but I do not recommend this as a permanent remedy, as one soon gets inured to it, and wacky baccy can make you paranoid.
I have visited two osteopaths, whom I was assured would not employ brash manipulations, both did so with agonising, long lasting results.
A physiotherapist (kinetherapist in france) was very gentle and soothing, and gave temporary (few hours) alleviation of pain, as does a massage from my beloved. Shiatsu can help, but beware not to get carried away with the exercises, and warn the masseur of your problem.
I have now lost patience with the ‘alternative’ approach, although a kinesologist has greatly aided me with sleeping. I have been to see a back specialist/neurologist who tells me that I need to have the flattened disc removed, and the two vertebra welded together. Acquaintances who have suffered this operation tell me they feel worse off now than before, can anybody relate their experiences of this good or bad please?
A friend had an operation to nibble off the part of the disc that was touching the nerve, with success, but scans show that this is apparently not going to help me. I’ve heard of titanium being used to replace the disc, any info appreciated.
The neurologist suggested having my nerves cauterized for relief of a couple of months, but a friend says this is very painful and didn’t work for her.
Good luck to all fellow sufferers and please help this site to help us by giving readers any advice and information that may be relavant.
I would be very pleased to hear from/reply to you, and can be contacted at: stallwood@theoffice.net
all the best,
Nick
xxxXxxx.
IP: Logged |
broomy
Member
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posted 06 April 2003 08:42 AM
Like everyone else here I had back pain for a long time starting at 16. Two years later I had discectomies which only relieved the symptons. Got married, had kids and decided to work in SA for a while. After arriving I needed my pain killer jab and subsequently returned to my GP every couple of weeks for a top up. He was having none of it and referred me. To cut a long story short, after the scan I had another OP, this time at 33 an L3-S1 decompression and fusion. It was done by Carl Van Heerden a Neurosurgeon and Pierre Giraud, an Orthopeadic surgeon. That was three years ago. Gentlemen, I kiss your feet. You've given me my life back. If anyone's interested they're at the Randburg Clinic, Jo'burg. It hurts like hell and the recovery is slow but its great now.IP: Logged | |
